{"id":7567,"date":"2023-10-27T15:46:25","date_gmt":"2023-10-27T15:46:25","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/portal.bluetogold.com\/?p=7567"},"modified":"2026-09-17T06:41:49","modified_gmt":"2026-09-17T13:41:49","slug":"no-trespassing-signs","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/portal.bluetogold.com\/?p=7567","title":{"rendered":"No Trespassing Signs"},"content":{"rendered":"

Here is a question that we frequently encounter:\u00a0 Will a \u201cNo Trespassing\u201d sign and a closed gate prohibit you from doing a knock and talk<\/a>?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Let me give you some context here.\u00a0 Some deputies in a rural setting want to do a knock and talk on a burglary suspect.\u00a0 They don’t have probable cause<\/a> to arrest him.\u00a0 Now the suspect lives on a 100 acre ranch.\u00a0 It’s fenced with barbed wire, and the driveway gate is closed, not just for privacy, but also to keep the cows in.\u00a0 It’s a gate to\u00a0 a working ranch, but the gate is not locked.\u00a0 There are several \u201cNo Trespassing\u201d signs provided near the front gate.<\/p>\n

About midday, the deputies open the gate and drive through.\u00a0 They close the gate behind them so they don’t let the animals out.\u00a0 They drive down a mile long driveway to reach the suspect\u2019s house, and they talk to him.<\/p>\n

We now have two questions.\u00a0 Number One is, are we good here on a knock and talk?\u00a0 Whether we are or not, question Number Two is; if we develop probable cause to arrest him, can we arrest him?<\/p>\n

What is the Girl Scout rule for a knock and talk?<\/h2>\n

To begin to answer that, whether or not a knock and talk is lawful falls into the Girl Scout rule. It comes from a case called Florida versus Jordan\u2019s, US Supreme Court. \u00a0First, take the cop part out of it.\u00a0 I know your mission is to find out, but take the cop part out.\u00a0 The rule is; do you believe that the Girl Scouts could do the same thing without offending this person’s raised expectation of privacy or would they be trespassing on his property?\u00a0 Do you believe that he would expect or understand that some people would want to go to the ranch and try to sell him cookies?\u00a0 Do you believe that a politician looking for votes wouldn’t feel comfortable going up to the gate?<\/p>\n

Context matters too in the sense of where this guy is.\u00a0 He’s on 100 acre ranch.\u00a0 So of course,<\/p>\n

he’s supposed to have gates and fences.\u00a0 Also, it’s very common to put up barbed wire or razor wire around one\u2019s property because people steal stuff.\u00a0 It’s remote, and the \u201cNo Trespassing\u201d signs make sense.\u00a0 They signal; I don’t want you on my property for illicit purposes.<\/p>\n

Does the Ninth Circuit allow a knock and talk past a closed gate?<\/h2>\n

Now, the Ninth Circuit is a little tougher than most circuits.\u00a0 And even the cops in New York City know the reputation of the Ninth Circuit.\u00a0 They have a case that does talk about closed gates and \u201cNo Trespassing\u201d signs near the front gate.\u00a0 And they held that that gave you a signal that you could not do a knock and talk.<\/p>\n

That was not one of these ranch cases.\u00a0 That’s where the \u201cNo Trespassing\u201d sign was right at the front of the yard and the closed gate.\u00a0 I’ve always been suspicious that a lot of people put up \u201cNo Trespassing\u201d signs just because it’s routine to do that, especially on farms.\u00a0 I’m sure you\u2019ll see a bunch of other \u201cNo Trespassing\u201d signs on other peoples\u2019 farms.\u00a0 It just kind of almost comes with the property.<\/p>\n

Can you open an unlocked gate to do a knock and talk?<\/h2>\n

\u00a0So this can go either way.\u00a0 Your judge is going to matter on this one, because I\u2019m going to lean towards it being lawful.\u00a0 The knock and talk is lawful.\u00a0 The gate is unlocked and we have a reason for the gate.\u00a0 It just makes sense.\u00a0 I don’t think that the Girl Scouts would be trespassing on this person’s property, just with those factors, and it makes sense that he has these things up in place.<\/p>\n

\u00a0However, there are reasonable minds that can differ with me.\u00a0 So that’s my first thing.\u00a0 Now, we don’t have an open field, so will it really matter, this fence?\u00a0 And the answer is; it does matter because it still sends a signal to you about whether this person must be left alone or not, even though passing through the gate would not violate the guy’s curtilage<\/a> because curtilage cannot extend out that far.\u00a0 But again, I think you’re okay. \u00a0I’m going to lean on the side of this being a lawful knock and talk,<\/strong> especially if it’s articulated correctly.<\/p>\n

Can you arrest someone standing on his own porch?<\/h2>\n

Now we come to the next question.\u00a0 Let’s say that we’re at the front door.\u00a0 If we did find that we have probable cause and he’s on his porch, can we hook him up?\u00a0 The answer is \u201cyes.\u201d <\/strong><\/p>\n

That’s US versus Santana, he’s within or outside of a threshold.\u00a0 He is arrested under the Fourth Amendment.\u00a0 Now, if he’s inside of his home, then he’s off limits.\u00a0 You would have to get district pre-approval unless<\/em> you have some form of exigency: imminent escape, a legitimate officer safety issue, imminent destruction of evidence, that type of stuff.<\/p>\n

That was a great question.\u00a0 Again, the ninth circuit is a little tricky, so I’ll want to hesitate on giving you a black and white answer on this one.\u00a0 I’m leaning towards \u201cYes,\u201d but, at the same time it could go either way.\u00a0 Articulation is going to be key on this one, about why the general public could do the same thing that you did.<\/p>\n

\u00a0I hope you liked this.\u00a0 Until next time, my friends stay safe.<\/p>\n

Related from Blue to Gold<\/h2>\n